Top 10 War Games
The Dice Tower
Views: 260259
Like: 1728
Tom Vasel, Sam Healey, and Zee Garcia take a look at their favorite war board games
00:00 – Introduction
05:53 – Sam’s #10
07:35 – Tom’s #10
09:02 – Zee’s #10
10:39 – Tom’s #9
11:52 – Zee’s #9
14:13 – Sam’s #9
16:53 – Zee’s #8
20:06 – Sam’s #8
21:32 – Tom’s #8
23:15 – Zee’s #7
24:32 – Tom’s #7
25:39 – Sam’s #7
28:13 – Tom’s #6
28:58 – Sam’s #6
32:02 – Zee’s #6
34:38 – Sam’s #5
36:48 – Zee’s #5
39:15 – Tom’s #5
42:04 – Sam’s #4
44:17 – Tom’s #4
45:23 – Zee’s #4
46:45 – Tom’s #3
47:57 – Zee’s #3
50:18 – Sam’s #3
51:52 – Zee’s #2
54:12 – Sam’s #2
56:41 – Tom’s #2
58:28 – Zee’s #1
1:01:27 – Tom’s #1
1:06:45 – Sam’s #1
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04.02.2022
Who are these guys?
I'm 19 now and I absolutely love the grognard type wargames, that's what I mainly like to play. I also have two friends who are the same and even a bit younger. And this is 4 years after this video was uploaded.
I'm a 'Grog' in that war games are one of my favourite genres and I enjoy 'heavy' war games like Paths of Glory (I'm also over 50 (63)). But to me a game that is THEMED on war IS a war game. Snooty elitism should have no place in the hobby. I love Paths of Glory, but I also love Memoir '44 Overlord format and Quartermaster General. I could care less what some numpties consider to be a war game.
Fun times 2017 Tom has number 1 behind number 2 I guess cards didnt stand the test of time lol
According to their definition, even a game like "Bang!" would qualify as a war game. It has conflict in it, AND shooting.
How could you think that intro would be good? It's horrible.
Been going through old videos here lately. Yall got destroyed in this video lol. This video should be remade just for another great comment section.
Star WARS, X-wing isn't a war game? Sam, Sam ,Sam ,Sam ,Sam,,,,,smh.
This video is 1 hour?! Well i just dont care at all…
Con sus huevazos. Neuroshima Hex, Tannhauser, Memoir44 en el top 2. Y no hay un maldito GMT en todo el top (aparece el TS y critican a Zee diciendo que no es un wargame). De traca.
Axis & Allies?
You're definitely not wargamers. No Avalon Hill, GMT, XTR Corp, SPI, Decision games, etc … and no Richard H. Berg, Jim Dunnigan, Joseph Miranda, Ty Bomba, etc…
X-Wing even resembles a bit Wings of Glory in respect to mechanics, so I would say it is a tactical war game with a space theme
5:45 they actually start talking about the effing topic
Idk, Tom, that intro is a little harsh for somebody who argues about what is a true pick up and deliver game…
HAMTAG, half the BS, twice the intelligent insight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO-RwCEZX6o&t=31s
Board game Wargames and table top wargames are very different things.
Wargames is about, if not simulating, then imitating, military operations.
Just being "about war" is not enough. But I guess Tom realized that.
Starting out alienating wargamers by calling them snotty and "a dying breed" is stupid however.
I don't for a second believe that people are avoiding the hobby because someone says that Twilight Struggle is not a wargame.
Here are my top 10 war games:
1. Risk 2210 AD (Risk Europe and Legacy are also great)
2. Diplomacy
3. Game of Thrones Board Game 2nd edition with Mother of Dragons expansion
4. The Expanse with Doors and Corners expansion
5. Twilight Struggle with Zero Hour expansion
6. Churchill
7. Friedrich
8. This War of Mine with Tales from the Ruined City expansion
9. Axis & Allies & Zombies (Anniversary Edition is also great)
10. Scythe with all expansions
Bonus: Cry Havoc
I selected my games as being war focused with different mechanics and tactics. While This War of Mine is a narrative game, it explores the reality of war from the common people.
A”War” game in terms of old school war games that are big or have a ton of rules are just games for big kids(old dudes like me) that like to pretend play at war, thus playing a “War” game is equal to modern more streamlined boardgames that may be about war.
All games are games. War gamers and boardgamers are doing the same exact thing; playing or pretending, using silly mechanics and having fun while doing it.
Has anyone played Avalon Hill's "Third Reich"? Wow. Talk about a rules heavy game. The complexity goes to 11.
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Dam guys… Get on with it.
Over 25 games, ONE real wargame: Combat Commander. sigh Now I understand the lengthy, pre-emptive attempt to mitigate criticism of their choices as they derided wargamers.
Memoir '44 being readily available…man I missed out!! Also, I've probably watched over 100 dice tower videos since getting into the hobby over a year ago and I've never been as pleased as i was with the small passing compliments to Age Of Conan. Really like that game and wish it received more acclaim. Great video!
Please at least try to explain the basic rules of the games… this is an unstructured mess
I can not believe axis and allies did not make it on the list. Shame
Tyrants of the underdark
jesus… did wargamers beat you up when you were a child?
Disagree. Examples of great games: Russian Campaign, Russian Front, Vietnam 1965-1975, Korea, A House Divided, Paths Of Glory, (the Fleet series), (The Third World War series), Top Hat…..
im 12 and I like Warhammer 40 k
I played Axis & Allies at tournaments for a number of years and it was the most fun I have ever had with any board game and for this reason I was hoping that it would make this list. The absence is especially confusing since Fortress America made the list and I consider that game to be much more random and a lot less fun.
Tom often will say that those "older games" are not as good as modern games but I don't understand this at all. I have played many modern games (7 Wonders, Scythe, Catan variants, Pandemic, Race for the Galaxy, Raiders of the North Sea, Power Grid, Twilight Imperium, Dominant Species and others) and I like these games a great deal but Axis is bad as compared to them? I am trying to figure out how Tom, Zee and Sam could think that.
I wonder if these guys have played tournament rules with the third edition map and units? First edition rules were terrible as the allies could just put an unlimited complex in Persia and have a 95% chance of winning. Although even first edition rules would be patched by the tournament convention of bidding to see who plays the Axis. Or maybe they played with people who did a lot of research? There is nothing more unbalanced in any game that I have ever liked than heavy bombers so that could explain it. (Just an idea for a top 10 list there Tom, "Top 10 unbalanced rules in games we like"?)
I really like Tom, Zee and Sam and I love Dice Tower videos but I just don't know how they don't consider Axis and Allies to be more of a classic and influential game. Tom even puts Diplomacy on many of his lists though he has clearly said he hates it many times. Why no love for Axis?
Would anyone else be interested in a Dice Tower video explaining why Axis and Allies doesn't get any love?
It would really add a lot of value to your videos if you showed examples of the games you're discussing during your vids.
As a war gamer I agree with the bad elites attitudes turning off new gamers.
Wow. Only ONE game that even comes remotely close to being a sim out of all of them…
Risk isn't a wargame because it correlates to reality in exactly zero ways.
Can we get an updated list on this? Been a while and I am wondering if it has all changed.
Sam thinks war gaming is a theme
Games Mentioned:
1775 Rebellion
Warhammer: Diskwars
Memoir '44
Heroscape
Fortress America
Senji
Battle Cry
X-wing: Miniatures
1812: The Invasion of Canada
Duel in the Dark
Twilight Imperium 3
Twilight Struggle
Risk: Legacy
Combat Commander
Battlelore
Battle of the Five Armies
Kemet
Command and Colors: Ancient
Cyclades
Small World
Battlelore 2.0
Nexus Ops
Tannhauser
Neuroshima Hex
Battleground: Fantasy Warfare
Here's a good rule to follow: If the game may be a borderline case, do grognards play and discuss it? By this standard, then Twilight Struggle is a war game, but Risk is not. Risk: 2210 and Risk Legacy are probably war games, however.
The original Axis & Allies is unquestionably a war game. It is a little over-long for its depth, however. It is also incredibly difficult for the Axis to win, but isn't that "realistic?"
Here’s a crazy idea! Maybe you could, you know, agree on what constitutes a war game ahead of time? Even if you don’t share the same opinion agree on the criteria. Having three lists based on different criteria makes no sense and happens in EVERY dice tower top 10.
Come on guys, when I click on the time stamp, I don’t want to hear a 2 minute description of the game BEFORE you mention the name. Makes my time to scan the video way too long. Sam is the worst offender.
And as the video continued, you guys seemed to introduce games that were less and less like wargames. I was surprised you didn’t start considering checkers and chess to be “wargames.”
Tom and Zee: Wargames
Sam: War Games
I bet a Warg is a Swedish Wolf on anabola ( bcz W from the word Wolf and "arg" from the word Varg that means Wolf in Swedish combined are Warg and the Word arg from Varg means angry and that is the feeling people think anabola gives and just look at thoose meatheads, i promise you they are on some gear.
games that start a battle are war games
Seriously, people from USA, stop drinking colored water. Hoy are all fat!
Good point by Tom at the beginning of the vid about the heavier games.
Give traditional, historical war games a chance if someone is willing to bring one to the table and teach it. If you really love gaming, you owe it to yourself to try one.
I first watched this video about a year ago, and I just watched it again. I really believe Tom is confusing people who PRETEND to play heavier, traditional war games (keyboard warriors, internet trolls, etc.) with people who ACTUALLY play these sorts of games. For example, I would rather play Memoir '44 than virtually any Euro or casual game, because, while it may be VERY light, it is still a historical war game. (By golly, it even has hexes!) I would break out the 1984 version of Axis & Allies anytime, except for the following reasons: 1) it is too long for its depth (VERY light); 2) in a two-player game, it is almost impossible for a new player to win as the Axis, but playing the Allies requires he/she to manage three nationalities; and 3) it attempts to simulate the strategic, operational, and tactical levels simultaneously, so it is almost unique. In other words, it really isn't representative of virtually any other historical war game.
Most people who enjoy traditional, historical, hex & counter war games understand that they represent a small subset of a very small group (war gamers) of a relatively small group (hobbyist gamers). Are some of us game snobs? Undoubtedly. Do we ever "out" ourselves? Almost never. We understand that we HAVE to be good ambassadors for our hobby. Is traditional war gaming "dying?" Let's just say that VASL and other electronic platforms have taken it off life support.
I have played war games for @40 years, and I have only met a few people like the straw men described by Tom. They were all from the generation in which "traditional" war games were actually "new." People forget that before D&D, if you wanted to play a heavier, immersive game you only had three options: 1) Diplomacy; 2) miniatures-based war games; and 3) the war board games pioneered by Don Roberts. (Perhaps I should include chess, but chess became its own hobby well before the 20th century.) What we now call "traditional" war games were once incredibly revolutionary; they allowed people who didn't want to fool with miniatures (or just couldn't afford the time/money) to play more "realistic" games. I am JUST old enough to remember walking into dedicated toy stores and finding 10+ Avalon Hill games on the shelf. I wouldn't say these games were ever truly "mainstream," but they came pretty darn close at one time. They were very popular with older children and teens, because we couldn't afford larger miniature armies.
To sum up, traditional war gamers are great folks, by and large. We would LOVE to bring more people into our hobby. Some of it may be for selfish reasons (more opponents, etc.), but ALL of us believe that there is no other gaming experience even remotely close to what the more complex historical war games have to offer.